Scott, as your wife and co-member of Out of the Grey, I have witnessed and been a part of your creative process for more than thirty years. I thought it would be fun to get your perspective on creativity in general and songwriting specifically.
Q. Do you mind answering a few questions for me and my readers?
A. You have readers?
Q. Very funny, yes, more readers than you have. So here’s your platform to disseminate all of your accumulated wisdom, (that shouldn’t take long)
What is your first memory of discovering the spark of Life (with a capital L) in relation to music?
A. Thanks for asking. It’s fun to go back and think about these things! I have quite a few memories of coming online to music in my young world.
Being born and raised in the ’60s and ’70s, as you were, we both know that there was so much amazing music being made.
It was 1967. I have a hazy memory of being 4 years old and singing along to The Doors’ “Light My Fire“ as it played on the radio in the suburbs of Los Angeles. My parents liked music, so the radio or record player was always on. I remember hearing the songs of Burt Bacharach and Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. I also recall singing along to hit songs like “Band On The Run” by Paul McCartney and Wings and “Rikki Don’t Lose That Number” by Steely Dan. Of course, my sister and I loved The Partridge Family.
As I got a little older, Elton John and Billy Joel found their way into my ears. I knew every word from The Stranger album. The Eagles plus Crosby, Stills and Nash, and Neil Young were also hugely important in my young musical formation.
Then, in late 1976, “Bohemian Rhapsody” by Queen became a massive hit. Even though it was 6 minutes long, it played on the radio constantly. The sheer force of that piece of art caused a shift in me: I didn’t just love listening to music anymore, now I needed to learn to make it.
I rode the bus to school in those years and remember a very dramatic and wonderful eighth-grader named Michael Sinatra. He made sure that all of us kids on the bus were entertained for the short ride to Holdrum Middle School. Together, we sang “Bohemian Rhapsody” every day for what felt like months. We tried the harmonies, the call-and-answer parts— it was the best!
Soon after, I asked my parents for guitar lessons. They were hesitant to buy me a guitar, imagining I’d abandon it like I’d quit football that year. I persisted.
So, one week when I was sick and out of school, my mom gave in and signed me up for guitar lessons. I played a rented nylon string guitar for a year or so. I practiced my etudes and classical technique until my teacher Sal made the mistake of bringing an electric guitar to a lesson. He played the opening riff to “Free Ride” by The Edgar Winter Group. Bye-bye classical music. Hello Les Paul.
It was time to rock.
That began my fascination with guitar riffs, song structure, Led Zeppelin, and The Who. And all the good and not so good that came along with them (think young hippie kid). I caught the performing bug at our high school talent show when I got a great response covering a Neil Young song. Playing the guitar and harmonica just like Neil, I also noticed that the girls were finally noticing me. Hooked. It’s an old story.
I must say that Peter Townsend of The Who was probably my biggest influence as a young musician. His honest introspection about what it was like to grow up feeling alone, alienated, and confused resonated with me. And he wrote those emotions into his songs and made another guy in the band sing them!
I realized that great music, poetic lyrics, and the conflicted feelings of a young man could all come together in a song. Also, the way I used to beat the crap out of an acoustic guitar, well, I borrowed that from Pete. Many nights, I played the Quadrophenia album in my room over and over again. “Can ya see the real me, Can ya, Can ya?”
Q. With all of those sparks for your own creativity, when did you write your first song?
A. I was in a band in high school with 3 really talented dudes. We called ourselves Perpetual Change and we covered songs that were somewhat difficult to pull off from bands like Yes, Led Zeppelin, Rush, and The Who, ( Tommy medley ). We also composed some ridiculous instrumentals that only our best fans/ friends liked. At the time, I was experimenting with recording my own original bits in my bedroom using the old “sound-on-sound“ technique with 2 cassette recorders.
I can’t remember if I ever finished any of those fragments but I wrote my first song for Perpetual Change as we were about to graduate and call it quits. It was called “Remains of A Runner.” If my memory serves me, it was an autobiographical lyric about me causing the band to break up. I think I was the “runner“ that the title refers to. Sorry fellas, you see there’s this girl I’m gonna meet and we’re gonna… never mind.
Q. So about that girl. When I first met you at Berklee College of Music in 1985, you played me a song you wrote called, “Empty Pages.” I think I started falling in love with you after hearing that song: it was so emotional and romantic. Although I was already working on my craft, you inspired me with yours. We didn’t co-write until a few years after that. But aren’t you glad we did?
A. Yes!
Q. Okay, tell me about your strengths as a songwriter, and how do they show up in our Out of the Grey music?
A. It’s taken me a long time to develop and embrace my strengths as a songwriter. As a younger songwriter, I had very little faith in my ability to present and complete an idea, even when we worked together in Out of the Grey. I was always good for a title, a verse here or there, an effective bridge, and the guitar parts to hang it all on.
You were very prolific from the start, so I was always happy to give your songs some guitar muscle or help edit and shape an already excellent idea. Then there were what I call your small beautiful songs, ones that needed no help at all from me. They were usually the super-fan favorites and deep album cuts. It was always a pleasure to collaborate with someone who is as meticulous with the craft as you. Your melody writing, interesting harmonic structures, and care for every word of a lyric inspired me to write more and get better. And that’s the truth.
As time has gone by and I’ve shifted focus into my music licensing company, Global Genius Productions, I’ve had a lot more opportunity to write for all manner of situations and I’ve been able to grow immensely as a writer. I got better in the second act and I’m really grateful to have had one!
Q. Will you tell a story about one of your favorite OOTG songwriting experiences?
A. Uh oh. Too many to list just one:
- I remember sitting in our first little apartment writing “The Deep” for our first project. So simple. so lovely. I can also feel the stretch of finding that hard-to-grab first guitar chord in “He Is Not Silent.” That was a couple of years before anyone cared or would ever hear our first album.
- Writing for the second album, I remember the first time you played me “Dear Marianne.” We were backstage before our opening set at a Charlie Peacock concert. You played it for me on the dressing room piano. One of your perfect songs that needed no help from me.
- The night we recorded “All We Need” for Diamond Days. I remember feeling like we had gained entrance to an exclusive club that night. The amount of talent assembled in the studio to record a song that we had written was overwhelming. I cut the guitar solo later that evening after everyone went home. My favorite solo of the few I’ve ever recorded.
- We wrote “So We Never Got To Paris” sitting at our kitchen table in the first house we owned. I wrote down that title after turning down a trip to France to make a music video with Steve Taylor because you were pregnant with Carina. You ran with that title and wrote a killer lyric. I wrote a good guitar part too.
- I remember that we took a year off from touring to write the songs for See Inside, our fifth studio album. We were exhausted from being on the road and the pressure to deliver another album. But we dug down deep. I wrote a lot of the riffs for those songs on electric guitar trying to bring some muscle back into the music after the lighter pop Gravity album.
- “Shine Like Crazy” started as a guitar hook on my Gretsch 6120 in our music room. We needed a catchy radio song for our sixth album, 6.1. I came up with that bouncy riff and you sang your butt off on the tracking session. The kids loved that song and I remember dancing to the mix in our living room as a family. Wonderful memory of a great time in our family’s life.
- It’s hard to pick one from our 2015 album, A Little Light Left, but one song that stands out for me is “Dropped Off,” which is a song about my dad. I feel like it took me my entire life to be able to write that song. I’m very proud of it. Also, “Travel Well” is a song where I gave myself a difficult task to solve a lyric problem and I think I pulled it off. It’s a love song to our life and our family and always chokes me up when the last verse comes around.
- I feel like I have to mention your solo album, Becoming. Even though I didn’t really write anything on it, it’s one of my proudest achievements as a producer and editor. I remember that we worked especially hard on the background vocals and arrangements. I can’t believe that was 17 years ago.
Q. Yikes, I can’t believe it either. Moving right along, how has your approach to songwriting changed since the early ’90s and our first years as Out of the Grey, through our latest recording in 2015? And what is your songwriting focus currently?
A. I think that my songwriting has changed in the same way I have personally changed. I used to care a lot more about being clever, doing something unique, being recognized and appreciated by our peers. This was reflected in the early albums when you and I had particular rules about what was cool and what wasn’t. Seems kind of funny now. These days, my songwriting is stripped down, a bit more basic when it comes to chord structure. Lyrically, I’m taking a more minimal approach, trying to get to the real emotion with less flower and fewer words. In some ways, I’ve come full circle and feel like a singer/ songwriter, more like the artists I grew up listening to.
Q. Very cool and so true. On a related subject: Scott, your love of literature and various book genres has always inspired me. I often turn to you for editing and critiquing of my fiction and non-fiction writing.
Can you describe how fiction and other genres (like biography, personal essays) add to your life? Give examples.
A. I’ve loved books my entire life. As a kid, I had a rich interior life populated with books and stories. Literature, biographies, and personal essays continue to be the main source of inspiration for my songwriting. I don’t think it’s easy to write well unless you’ve read some great stuff. I’m no genius and I need a lot of fuel and inspiration to be creative. If indeed our lives are a story, the great stories will provide lots of clues for creating a purpose-filled life. There’s so much inspiration, hope, and beauty in the stories that others have written. This has always been the case for me. I find it hard to believe when people tell me that they don’t like to read!
From Mark Helprin’s miraculous novels to Michael Chabon’s insightful essays, there are far too many to list in between. Perhaps that’s a separate blog: What Inspires The Dente’s?
Q. Do you have any advice or insights about the creative process that you’d like to share?
A. Sure, I have a few muddled thoughts:
I think the beauty of the creative process is that there are so many ways to travel and so many places to stop and look around. It took me a while to learn that waiting for inspiration to strike is a sure way for me to get nothing done. Songwriting is a craft that can be learned like most crafts. But you have to put in the time and seek out the masters of the craft. Study them, absorb, and emulate. It’s hard work finding your own voice.
Remaining a fan of others’ work and knowing that their glory and brilliance don’t detract from my own, has been hugely important. I can enjoy and even revere someone else’s creation, knowing I can’t be them and that’s okay. That’s great actually!
Loving and listening to good art gives me fuel, and love for the colors in my own paint box. I’m pretty much the result of everything I’ve taken in over the years. Hopefully, whatever I create adds my own nuance to the conversation of Art. I know more about music than anything else in this life. My heart was captured, shaped, and maybe even saved from loneliness and confusion, by sound and beauty and art. I owe so much to the creative life. It hasn’t been easy, it’s rarely been smooth, but it’s how I know to live. So I’m grateful.
♥
Thanks, Scott, for engaging my questions about songwriting and creativity. I’m sure readers will have thoughts and questions for you in the comment section.
Dear Readers, for more about Out of the Grey, read “Cloudy Today? Get Out of the Grey!”
I’ve loved you guys for years, and truly enjoyed reading this interview with Scott. Scott, one of my favorite songs that you’re the lead singer is “That’s Where I Live.” That song is a blessing to me when I get caught up in my things of this world, and helps me to refocus on living my life in Christ… And it helps me let go of the stuff in the “closets too full of nothing to keep.”
Thank you both for how you’ve truly blessed my life through your music and lyrics throughout all these years.
Barbra, thank you for staying engaged with us and our music for all of these years!
This was a really great way to actually get a feel of who you two are. I have never read a blog before this (although I didn’t know that it was a blog until somewhere at the very end…so THAT’S what a blog is…!), and I think I may try this again sometime.
Scott’s reminds me a lot of Phil Keaggy, the way he plays. Of course, he’s NOT, but, he’s the closest I have heard in a long time.
I have always appreciated the quality and maturity in OOTG, everything from the sound and writing. Great to get to “catch up” with you two. God’s blessings!
Thanks, Tom, for reading and for commenting and for the blessings!
Thanks for doing this interview, guys! I came to know your guys’ music starting at “See Inside.” (worked my way backwards from there…) Yet, the great guitar and well-crafted lyrics stand up to this day! Your music was never cookie-cutter Christian, and I appreciate that!
Thanks for the Memories!
Bo
Thanks, Bo, for sticking with us all of these years!
Yo Scott, without complaining in any way, shape or form, I am a bit surprised(not dissapointed!) that you
did not mention touring with Keaggy and King. I traveled from Denver to Lexington Kentucky to see you
at the Ichtuse Festival and was sad that they removed OOTG from the schedule! That would have been such a high to see and listen live to OOTG songs with you and Christene, and then add King and Keagy and his Jam-Man box or whatever it was called. Are there any live recordings of OOTG on stage with King and Keaggy that might be feasible to request and obtain? Please say yes!!! I am getting OOTG’s news letter, so you have my E-mail address! Great Interview! Now its your turn to interview Christine if you haven’t already? Thanks!
Bill from Denver…
Thanks for traveling the distance, Bill. Keaggy King Dente was a highlight for Scott (tho not a component of my interview questions). I’ll see what he has to say…
Thanks for the interview Christine!
you are welcome, old friend!
Thank you both for the music and the craft that you’ve shared together and with the world. It is so sweet to read Scott’s ‘interview’ and feel the love from your collaborations over the years. I’ve enjoyed OOTG so much and have had to trade cassettes for CDs because I’ve worn them out! I’m looking forward to what comes next. God bless you both!
Thank you, Debora. So glad you could feel the love ( : Thanks for the blessing!
What a fun idea and great interview!! I loved learning more about Scott’s creative journey and influences. I also enjoyed his comments on specific songs. I especially love “remaining a fan of other’s work and knowing their glory or brilliance doesn’t t detract from my own” in his answer to the last question. I needed that reminder. Love you guys ❤️
Thanks, Diane, for saying so and for your constant encouragement ( :
Great interview . I also remember you Christine with Susan Ashton, Margaret Becker and someone else. I forget. Im old(73)
thanks for reading, Brent!
Hello dear Dente’s.
Wow and YAY!!!! I loved reading this! I disagree with the statement “I am not a genius.” In my experience and YEARS of listening , you are a genius , Scott. Both of you are. Just as knowledge puffs up but application of that knowledge is WISDOM, so it is with music. So many play music( and it can be good) but when music flows through your being, it becomes POWERFUL and touches the soul.
I appreciate you sharing both your heart and wisdom. Because creativity & music is in you, it will flow ‘til your last breath.
May your second act bring you joy and peace.
❤️Deb J
What a kind and thoughtful blessing, Deb. Thank you for adding your well-articulated thoughts!
Your music has been a primary staple in my collection for the past ~25 years. Can’t think of a mix that it hasn’t been a part of. Too many great songs to even begin talking about. Timeless music overall with great lyrics. Since this was an interview with Scott – special shoutout to the guitar solo that ended Love Like Breathing into the next song. The musicality along with the way it bridges between songs is crazy. Will continue to follow you both in the hopes you’ll make more music.
Thank you, for listening and for really paying attention all of these years!
Yes! One of my all time favorite intros. Kind of like the full intro to, “Sing Your Praise to the Lord” (also, excellent bridge in that song, while I’m at it).
That was very valuable. Kept the reader wanting more too with that love story intro. It got me thinking again about meeting my wife 25 years ago and what made me fall in love.
Please tell the rest of that story soon!
Okay, Randy, we will someday write down the rest of the story ( :
Thank you so much for the interview! What comes through unmistakably, though it wasn’t the purpose of the interview, is the love you have always had — and still have — for each other. I have been reflecting recently (my wife and I being only a few years behind you) that marriage in the world’s eyes is a risk: you give all your physical prime years to this one person, you raise kids together, you progress through your careers together … and eventually you become too old to be considered “attractive” or for the opposite sex to “notice” you (though I will say that both of you are an inspiration in terms of aging gracefully!). But in exchange, you set a table with a “whole world of memories” and can, by God’s grace, look with gratefulness on having “built our worlds together.” What’s amazing is that you wrote that song 25 years ago — so much wisdom at such a young age! Thank you again for providing these glimpses of your journey; it is truly inspiring!
Nigel, you said this all so well…thanks for taking the time to express such profound and honest thoughts and observations. Thank YOU for the inspiration and encouragement!
Thanks for the interview guys. That was fun to read. I think that I may have detected some of the early influence (Yes, Led Zeppelin, Rush, and The Who) in some of your early guitar parts. I vote for a return to clever and unique. 🙂 How about a proggy or alt rock(Kings X/Ty Tabor) concept album Scott? Sort of like 2112 except a retrospective look at 2020?
Have to have Scott get back to you on this one! ( :
It was great to spend a little “virtual” time with You and Scott. You’ve both had a profound influence in my life and it is no surprise that I am not alone.
Peace and much Love,
Chris
Sweet, thanks for taking the time to engage, Chris. Peace and much love to you, too.
Having read your thoughts on writing, and now Scott’s thoughts, it reinforces why listening to your music has been an artistic experience that (for me) has never gotten stuck in a period genre. I can put one of your CD’s in and experience the songs in much the same way I did when they were ‘new.’ I hope aspiring artists take these comments of yours to heart and put in the hard work of mastering a craft that brings magic and joy to others!
Thanks, Carl. It’s amazing to imagine there is magic and joy but that’s the wonder of the creative life, isn’t it?
I totally agree with all.
Christine,
My husband and I are among your many long time fans.
I remember seeing you at Estes Park (I actually won the songwriting Grand Prize there one year!) and Scott was nervous and was playing your songs too fast. You fixed him with a stare and said, “If you don’t slow down, I am going to get another guitar player.”
I laughed out loud because my husband and I traveled full time for 15 years doing concerts and revivals (raised two kids on the road) and there were a few interesting marital/musical moments along the way. But in spite of those less-than-marvelous moments, I’m sure you’d agree that there are few things more precious than getting to make music with the man you love.
Thanks for the wonderful interview; now I’m going to be humming your songs all night. (NOT a bad thing!)
Haha, Becky, what a memory you have! I do remember that night–I was out of breath trying to keep up. Good to know you can relate and yes, it’s been a good trip together. Thanks for saying hello ( :
Everyone knows that songs sound faster at higher altitudes. It’s science.
yes of course they do ( :
Loved this interview!! Thank you for this!
yay, thanks!
It is enlightening to learn of Scott’s early fascination with music to his inspiration by his “idols” to his current enrichment through his own outstanding career, always a “creative life.” As poet Donald Hall put it: “When you lose yourself in your work and you feel one with it, it is like love.”
Well said, Jim ( :
Tardy comments: I love that song, Dropped Off. And Travel Well reaches right into my heart in that soft place we dads have; it is what I feel towards my own grown up daughters.
Thank you, Dentes. Your musical art has been a very fine traveling companion in this life-so-far!
Sean, thanks for the encouraging words! A blessing and an honor to be a part of your life : )
Wow…so much fun to hear from Scott.
My husband and I have been fans from the beginning.
Our first daughter was born back in 1992, and your album, The Shape of Grace was
playing constantly.
Nothing’s Gonna Keep Me From You….still one of my favorite songs ever….just amazing!
We also love Charlie Peacock, and we were really inspired by the Art House etc…we would read all about it, and dream about using our gifts and talents for the Lord.
Aug. 2001 we actually made the move from Oregon to Nashville with our two daughters.
They were 7 and 9 at the time. We didn’t know anyone, we didn’t have jobs, we just had our apartment and our hopes and dreams:)
2021 we will celebrate 20 yrs in Nashville! Best move we’ve ever made!
My husband has had many novels published, and I’ve had so many fun adventures with my music and singing/songwriting.
You two were such an example to us from the very beginning.
Taking the leap of faith, and just moving across the country because we wanted to share our gifts and talents…you guys were part of that dream. You showed us how it’s done…big thanks!
I am turning 50 in Jan. Our girls are all grown up, and we have 2 grand children.
Life is good, and we are still following our dreams, and loving the journey!
Many blessings.
Carolyn Rose Wilson
Carolyn, what a wonderful story and saga! Thanks for letting us be a small part of it ( :
My wife and I saw OOTG for the first time Sight and Sound in Lancaster with Charlie Peacock.
I thought it was neat that you were a local girl. We enjoyed the concert so much that we bought your album (on cassette tape) and some t-shirts. Wishes was getting a lot of airplay on WJTL. It was our favorite song on that album. Thanks!
Woah, that was a long time ago! Great memories. Thanks for being there with us : )
Merry Christmas to you and your family! Yesterday I had the opportunity to pull out your music and take a listen to my old favorites. It’s been over 25 years since I became a fan of Out of the Grey. (Sheesh!)
Your songs were just as good as I remember. Particular ones, such as Dreaming of April, I hit repeat more than once. As a teenager, I had the opportunity to see you in concert and was lucky enough to meet you a couple of times. The Shape of Grace became a soundtrack for a youth group trip to Memphis I went on in 1994. My husband and I included The One I’ve Been Waiting For in our wedding 23 years ago. After listening yesterday, I decided to Google Out of the Grey and came upon this website. I am glad to see you are still out there. I really enjoyed this interview with Scott. Thanks for the amazing music!
Wow, Jennifer, thanks for finding me and offering such great memories! So glad our music has been a part of your life and still is after all of these years ( :
Wow
I just discovered this .
Since Adam and Eve, Satan has divided and destroyed people .
Nothing has changed . More so than ever I can remember, Satan has divided marriages, families, churches and communities.
Jesus said they will know you are my disciples because you love one another .
Although, I do not “read” the name Jesus or Christian lingo in your writings .
I SEE Jesus all over it.
Your greatest testimony of Christ is that you are still TOGETHER. I hope that NEVER changes.
It’s NOT 35 years of great music but 35 years of wonderful marriage that spawned beautiful children, wonderful music, and an amazing ministry .
You have no idea how much your music has meant to me. Through many tragedies, death, loss and suffering it was your God inspired songs that kept me going and held my faith.
I have never met you . But those songs in Christ UNITE us as ONE body.
I KNOW, in the future, we will meet in His kingdom .
“Well done thou good and faithful servant “.
In Jesus’ Name
Amen
Ali, so glad to know our music has affected your life! Thank you for this encouragement ( :
I grew up listening to OOTG my early life. Beautiful songs. I remember dedicating my life to walk with Christ sincerely and truthfully. You guys have blessed me. Thank you. I still listen to you, 4Him, Point of Grace and many others. God bless you. Tracy, South Africa.
Tracy, thanks for listening for all of these years and thanks for the blessing!
Dear Christine and Scott,
I have often wanted to write a letter to you both over the years but just never could get round to it. I’ve found your blog today. I wanted to say ‘Thank You’ for the Music and Albums and God inspired Lyrics which have been with me , encouraging me and providing Comfort and a constant on my journey With Christ over many years. Your albums have come with me around the world since I was introduced to your albums, by an American Friend in the 1990’s. I was 21 then, and at 49 I still have your CD’s in my Car and on my ipad, and now my 9 year old is loving them. I have taken your albums with me to live in many Ireland, France, Japan and now back home in the UK. both Musically and lyrically your Albums are Perfect. I cannot say enough how My Walk with Jesus as a Christian has been bolstered by the lyrics of particular OOTG songs on my Journey. You are both a lovely, godly couple and please never stop creating music ,you just don’t know how much someone’s life can be positively affected by it. You both have a gift! Peace and Blessings to you both and I would love it if you ever did UK tour. Take care and God Bless Jenny Wood x
Jenny, your words are a splash of refreshing energy for me–thanks for the encouragement and love!
Hello! I bought your albums during my college years in the 90s and they bolstered up my young faith in Jesus. Your lyrics were woven through the tapestry of my soul. Over the past years, I didn’t listen as much mainly because I lost my cassette player/cassettes and moved overseas. Last week I woke up in the middle of the night singing the words, “He is not silent … we are not listening.” I don’t think I heard that song in 20+ years. But yet it was a word I needed to hear this week. Thank you for your songs; your labor is not in vain; I continue to be blessed.
Wow, Alicia, that is an amazing way to be reminded of a song–thanks for the story and for your encouragement!
I am so glad I went down an Out of the Grey rabbit hole today and read this interview. Thanks! (See Inside) is the only album of yours that I own;however after my excursion today, I intend to buy your debut album as well as 6.1.
I became aware of OotG after immersing my heart and ears in the Invention album that Scott did with Phil Keaggy and Wes King. “More to be Revealed” gives me goosebumps and tears of joy every time I listen to it!! And “53 Days in June” BLOWS MY MIND!! May God continue to pour out His Grace on the both of you. Thank you for creating beautiful love songs to God.
Kevin, glad to meet you here at the end of that rabbit hole! I think you will really enjoy our first record and “6.1”